So You're Trying To Get An UC...
Where To Start
This section was inspired by a PCer's complaint of, "Oh, TNT, why must you take away our precious UC Getters?," (and the following discussion) when magical pirate krawk plushies were released as random daily prizes, and the cost of the most expensive pet initially plunged to a low of around 6 million NPs. Based on the Neopian Times and Pound Chat, the new Forgotten Shore daily now gives away Pirate Draik Eggs and Pirate Krawk Morphing Potions...
The latest "UC Getter"s are combinations of either a draik custom + FFQ/paint or double-unlimited custom + RN/W. These combos may also include a high-statted BD pet or a robot zappermajig for the most sought-after UCs. This is due to the deflation of pirate krawk morphing potions, pirate draik eggs, magical pirate krawk plushies, etc. while increasing demand for UCs continues to drive them up as they are becoming rarer on the trading field.
|Customs, D/Ks, & FFQs|
|VWN/Custom Draik/Krawk + FFQ||Double Unlimited Custom + RW/N|
|These occasionally go for UCs like low to mid UC Darigans and most UC Mutants|
|Even Stats||UC Range||Labbed/Uneven Stats|
& Low-End UCs
|Half the value of the
equivalent HSD in even stats
|1600-2000HSD||High-end UCs &
Low UC P/Rs
|2100-2500HSD||Midddle UC P/Rs|
|2600-2900HSD||High-end UC P/Rs|
|3000-3500+HSD||Most UC D/Ks|
*Please note these have been updated according to trades following the recent battledome activities, which have caused BD pet values to continuously sky-rocket even after the actual site event passed. Accepted BD stats for each UC type/category have become much more defined due to the sudden jump in demand.
|Real Word & Names|
|Super-common RWs||Common RNs||Semi- & Uncommon RW/Ns|
|Foreign is usually okay||Mostly English & Neo-related||Only English accepted|
|Ex. I, is, one, etc.
& one-word phrases
|Eric, Emily, etc.|
|These may trade for...|
|Requires an unlimited custom
+ significant stats for UC P/R
|Possibly UC Greys/Faeries
with an unlimited custom
|D/K Morph + Paint/FFQ
is usually required for
Low to Mid UCs
For those seeking a UC P/R/D/K directly: The best bet is if you already have one of the following UCs:
- Most VWN/DN Upper/Upper-Mid UC Faeries & Darigans
- Most VWN Upper UC Greys/Misc.
- VWN UC Robot/Tyrannian Ixis
- VWN UC Sponge Aisha
Otherwise, lower-mid UC P/Rs go for VWN even-statted ~1600HSD and up, and UC D/Ks should expect VWN even-statted 3000HSD or more. They also may go for COMMON English names (think Erica, Emily, etc.) with truly-unlimited customs (ie. non-FFQ colors included). RWs are not as likely to trade for UC P/R/D/K unless the name matches the color/species, like CD or Device the Robot Krawks. Please note specific names are mentioned for your reference only. They will be removed in a heart beat if the owners are pestered with unwanted mails.
Trading Toward Your Ideal Pet
Aiming For The Best
This petpage is intended to provide suggestion for situations like, I have one of those super-rare UCs, but no one seems to know what to offer... or I'm trying to trade up, but none of my offers appeal to me. By no means are these methods a guarantee of finding your dream pet, but they certainly helped me and other traders move along and up the hill to our targets. These are "all the little things" as I call them; they are suggestions and tips for trading-ruts, brick walls, and when it seems like the chain will never end up where you would like. I will begin with a recent neomail I received and my reply: (Click and drag to url bar to make larger)
The tips I suggested for both issues and to encourage potential offers were:
- Try building up an OTB list to advertise
- Offer a 3-way if possible
- Consider trading above the target if the best-named pet is a priority
- Stay within the mainstream groups
- Keep an eye out for POPULAR UC rarities
And here's why:
- Keeping an OTB list makes your pet have bigger appeal if the offers are more popular or have better name formats. This marketing technique also helps other traders work out potential trades/offers involving your pet, so you are more likely to be moving closer to your goal. So why not let them do the work for you?
- Now that TNT allows multiple transfers per month, 3-way trades are much safer and more accessible. Here's an overview: You have pet A and want pet B, but pet B's owner wants someone else's pet, pet C. You may be lucky enough to trade for pet C in time to retrade for pet B (obviously if pet C's owner wants your pet instead of pet B). This way, you are only using 2 direct-exchanges, and there is no real need for a witness board because no one has to wait to send or receive a pet via single transfers.
Please note: this can be tricky business, and there is always the possibly of offer-stealing. Although the above method is less susceptible to this when traders are careful with the information they share, some traders (aka the owners of pets B & C) may become angry or offended because they didn't get a direct trade for the pet you received in the end. I personally don't consider it offer-stealing in most cases, but some PCers do. Also, if pet C is a custom, make sure it is carried out exactly as pet B's owner wishes; and always keep in mind the possibility of a back-out, which is no longer against the rules or reportable.
- If you are after a high-end UC like a faerie grarrl (as in the above neomail), the same pets can remain UFT for months at a time (and even years in some cases) because their owners know it is worth waiting through offers to find a really good one. They would rather wait for a DN or even WN UC Plushie/Royal than quickly accept another UC Grey/Faerie; and this is way someone who wants that particular pet would need to beat all the other offers. Be it a certain pet being sought-after or simply one with a much higher-value, it will need to be a pet the other owner will not hesitate to jump for. This is why I recommend trading above your trading goal if getting one with a specific name is very important.
This approach also works for getting lower & middle UCs, but it isn't as exaggerated because those UCs tend to get flat reputations if their owners hold on too long. By "flat," I mean the pet looks like it is really HTT when it doesn't change owners or appear to have offers. to prevent this, see the first pointer again about keeping an OTB list.
- From highest to lowest, the mainstream UC groups are: Draik/Krawk, Royal/Plushie, Faerie/Grey, & Darigan/Tyrannian/Mutant. Keep in mind that the UCs in each group span narrower values for each higher tier. For example, UC Draiks/Krawks & Plushies/Royals typically only trade among themselves (respectively), but UC Greys/Faeries can trade anywhere from UC Darigans to UC Plushies/Royals. While the top tiers are quite restricted and the middle/bottom groups are usually vast in values, each bunch maintains their boundaries with minimal fluctuation.
There is a sub-example I would like to bring up in regard to mainstream groups.
A trader recently make the following ARB board (no screenshot available):His pet:
__XxxxXxxxX__ the UC Grey Poogle
xxx_## the UC Grey Meerca
xxxxxx the UC Darigan Peophin
xxxx_xxxxxx the UC Darigan Kougra
xxxx_xxxxxx the UC Faerie Kougra
The highest-tier UC is the UC Faerie Kougra, followed respectively by the UC Grey Meerca, and both UC Darigans. These are all mainstream groups, in contrast to UC Babies, Maraquans, Robots, etc. A full anaylsis of all four offers would likely find the UC Darigan Kougra as the overall best offer due to high popularity, but the point here is to find an offer in the highest possible mainstream group because those UCs have regularly stable values compared to the other kinds of UCs mentioned above.
- DO NOT just trade for any old uncommon UC, label it "RARE" in all caps, and expect big fancy offers to come rolling in. Surprisingly, a lot of trader attempt this, and not many seem to get any offers at all. Think of it like false inflation--not very many traders will want any part of the act. On the other hand, try to grab these: DN/WN UC Tyrannian/Robot Ixis, VWN UC Sponge Aishas, VWN UC Mara Hissies/Gelerts, VWN UC Halloween Moehogs, DN/WN UC Darigan Wockies, & V/WN UC Faerie Techos. The below table shows these and other UCs took look out for.
|Rare V/WN UCs||Uncommon V/WN UCs|
Please note that most UC Greys/Faeries/Darigans and all UC PRDKs are excluded from the table, mainly due to their large groups and high popularity. Various common UCs such as UC MSPs are also not shown.
It's all in how you present it
This section will cover the following topics:
- The display of name formats
- Listing your offers
- individual and group boards
Name Format Display
Although you can see general formats at other guides, these are the specific rules I used for my own pets:
- RW/N is a realistic and/or familiar RW/N specified as common or uncommon
- Semi-RW/N is a useful RW/N with an unusual pre-fix, suffix, or slight misspelling
- VWN is capped and short with only letters (absolute max 10 letters)
- WN is same as above but uncapped OR capped with more than 10 letters
- DN is either of the above with more than 10 letters and very few underscores and/or numbers (no more than 4 total)
- BN is way more than 10 letters or with more than 4 underscores and/or numbers
- VBN is like above but with both too many letters and several underscores and numbers
- Variations of VVBN are used when the pet's name is equivalent to a long-time keyboard mash. Sadly, these names do exist.
Of course, name format standards vary based on opinion and have gotten stricter since I retired from trading, but these labels can still be used today. Although I received negative comments on occasion about my pets' names and color/species, these particular format standards often encouraged more desired offers by "making it under the bar" for the next best name format possible.
Keeping An Offer ListSome traders will say, I don't keep OTBs. It's either yes or no. However, it may be beneficial to try the opposite tactic because keeping track of offers for your pet will (1) encourage more offers, (2) give you better control of your pet's face-value, and (3) maintain a short-term value record. Like I once heard another PCer say, "Traders don't want pets that don't trade." By showing that your pet has received offers, other traders are likely to be more interested. Additionally, depending on which offers you prune off the list, your pet may look higher-valued. The third point is for the advantage of other traders with the same pets. Although there are some UC Trading Databases around which have many lists of previous trades, some kinds of UCs can go for months without having a trade listed in one of these databases. Therefore, word-of-mouth around the PC about who is getting which offers will be much more reliable and may help you network with other traders to find the perfect offer you are seeking.
- If not current offers, use "past offers include"...
- Avoid saying "Current OTB(s)" because it can look greedy
- Include name formats of offers when possible or helpful
- Have a brief list of offers you are seeking
Message: Seeking wn pets!!! trying to get to an uc grey koug
past offers include:
wn uc grey kacheek
wn uc grey shoy
wn uc uncapped grey grarrl
dn uc grey gelert
In this senario, the trader did all of the things I would do for the given pet. While s/he is seeking WN pets, it doesn't look like the koug in particular has to be WN, and most of the given offers are well within the range of one.
My final point here is that, unless you are super-glued to VWN pets only, don't request a format. Maybe even say D/WN if you are flexible. This increases the chances that someone will offer your desired pet(s) even if the name format isn't ideal. There's nothing wrong with retrading and working your way up to a better named one. Personally, I went through 2 DN & VWN UC Faeries Pteris, 2 DN & WN Lennies, and 2 V/WN & English-RW UC Grey Ixis before reaching my ultimate dream pet (UC RG lupe) and then deciding (due to unfortunate circumstances) to trade back down to a third pair of UC Faerie birds.
Group Boards vs Your Own Board
During my last few trades, offers tended to spring up more often when I listed my pet in one of those "Official UC Trading Board". If I didn't start the board, the most opportune places to post were generally the closest to the top of the first and last pages, as in the 1st or 2nd post under the opening post and the 1st to 3rd post on each following page. If I remember correctly, each page held 20 or so posts, so as soon as the next post made a new page, most of the time everyone else on the board would fill it up again. This kept the board going with minimal effort, and it was usually somewhere in the top of the PC boards so potential offers would see it first and venture in to explore. Thus, advertising with these group boards was sometimes much more fruitful than making a solo board.
So, take a look at the PC right now. Do you see one going on? No? Then start one! I usually started with this post format:
UFT UCs or your offers for one.
________ the ______ _______ is UFT.
(put any extra details here)
Please post or mail offers.
Some traders begin with "I didn't see one... so post your pets" in case they missed the current one. It helps to avoid a stampede of PCers in these situations.
To Trade Or Not To Trade?
The Best Guesses & Adverse Opinions
There will be a time when you don't like any of your pet's offers, and time might keep going with the same result of your advertsing. The thing is popular high-end pets maintain their appeal over longer periods than middle and low-end UCs, which can get stale if they aren't traded after a while. Recall from the above section what I quoted one PCer to have said about unwanted pets.
Five Steps For ARBing...
This section combines the major factors of trading for a specific kind of pet to judge his or her value. Perhaps you may be wondering what to expect for your DN BD UC Mutant Hissi, or you might have your eye on that B/DN UC RG Aisha but aren't sure if you would keep. Actually, there happens to be a RW UC Faerie Wocky UFT, and you can't stop thinking about it but don't want to over-offer... This area is meant to lay down some bases and settle those uncertainties.
These are merely guidelines. They require direct-observation of trading on the PC and are best used by experienced traders to assist in judging retrade possibilities. Remember, values are not static, and trades are pretty much unique to you as an individual trader.
- What is the UC-type in question?
- Is the species/color combo more or less popular?
- How many are currently UFT?
- And that brings us to the name formats...
- Any extra features (Stats, trophies, etc.)?
A UC Mutant is not a UC Royal, so it is important to establish where your UC stands in the spectrum. A UC Royal will be much higher up than a UC Mutant, and yours will probably be somewhere in-between. As a general rule (for converted pets also), your UC will almost always be able to retrade for others of the same type. there are a few exceptions to this however, and the species will determine those...
The species will determine your UC's place within it's group. Using two random UC Faeries as an example, a Kau will be less popular than a Peophin, thus the Peo will trade for more. There are also species which are typically all-around unpopular such as buzzes and moehogs. This is part of the reason why UC Plush Buzzes trade much lower than the other UC Plushies (too many made only for the FFQ avatar), and both UC and converted Moehogs don't get much interest usually.
Experienced traders will tell you to bide your time until there are fewer UCs like yours UFT. The less competition you have, the better offers you will get. Take V/WN UC Grey Ixis, for example; They usually come and go in bunches. When they are plentiful, D/WN UC Plush owners tend to leisurely pick-off the best-named ones after carefully considering each one. However, when the ixis are more scarce, they seem to go faster for the same offers more firmly.
Some traders will say names are everything. Of course, the better the name, the more likely you will receive those desired offers. RW/RN, V/WN, DN, and V/BN names usually determine if a UC may trade, respectively, up for a high-end UC or down to a low-end UC. To get an idea of realistic formats, read the speel on the UC Trading Database.
These don't usually add a whole lot to any UC unless you're talking unusually high stats well over 1000HSD and such. For stats, there are three trading categories. Personally, I've always gotten away with even 25+ stats as Semi-BD. BD is usually 50+, while SBD (aka super) is mostly 200+. Semi-BDs are good for moving up a trading tier; while BDs are good for going up more than one tier or switching from a high-end converted to a UC; and SBD is great for directly trading for a mid- to high-end UC. For more accurate info, see the BD Pet Trading Guide and/or BD Pet Trading Database... As for trophies and medals, they tend to add more appeal to pets-for-keep but not much either way.
Now back to those examples...
The first one will be...
- UC Mutant, so low on the spectrum
- Hissi, so one of the most popular UC Motants as well as an LE (rarer) species
- Uncommon among other UC Mutants UFT
- DN with xxxxx_xxxx format
- Has some stats and maybe a trophy
Result: Might trade as if WN (with patience) for a mid UC Faerie or low UC Grey.
The second one comes out to...
- UC RG, so pretty high
- Aishas are one of the lower UC RGs
- Very commonly UFT compared to other UC Royals
- D/BN with Xxxxx_xxxx# format
- No extras
Educated guess: Trading for another UC Royal/Plush will be very difficult,
but high-end UC Faeries may be a better alternative.
The third one is pretty spiffy...
- UC Faerie, so about a mid-high UC-type
- Wockies are one of the most popular UC Faeries
- The V/WN ones are rarely UFT anymore.
- His/Her name is RW and pretty common to boot!
- Minor stats and maybe a trophy or two
The wrap-up: Don't expect any UC Draik/Krawk offers, but mid to upper
UC Royals/Plushies should definitely be reasonable.
Name Formats vs. Tiers
A common complex question from traders is, Is it an uptrade if the name is really bad, or should I downtrade for a VWN pet? Because so many factors can go into an answer here, I will try to keep it simple: Only downtrade for a VWN pet if you plan to keep it.
While name format standards become stricter everyday, it is always possible to find a trader for a certain pet who is willing to accept a slight difference in name format (ie uncapped for capped, one _/# for two, etc.). I have actually done this myself more than once. The most memorable was a 3-way trade coupled with a 2 mil custom on my part, in which I eventually managed to trade a 6L/VWN Desert Krawk for an uncapped WN/7L UC Faerie Lenny for a VWN/6L UC Faerie Pteri. In that case, krawks were still rockstars of pet trading and just starting to decline as acceptable offers for UC Plushies/Royals; the lenny's former owner specifically wanted a V/WN Desert Krawk; and my goal was the best-named UC Faerie Pteri UFT at the time. Looking back, it was not a huge step up, but it was an improvement nonetheless.
There are really two main types of ARB boards. The first is when the offers for your pet are either significantly different or blurry in terms of values, and most respondents have diverse and sometimes contrary replies. On the other hand, the second version plays out if your given offers are all very similar, and the result is all (or nearly all) appraisals, judgments, and estimations all have the same bottom line. If the latter outcome has already occurred, then you should know your next move already. But if you receive conflicting results as in the first description, you will need to take an in-depth look at each offer and consider the following:
- Is this the color/species popular or even acceptable to me?
- Which one has the best name format?
- How about the highest tier or potential value?
- What have I traded for in the past, especially recently?
- How close in value is this offer to my intended goal?
Rated from most influential to least, you would ideally put more weight on questions 4, 3, and 2 rather than 1 and 5 to best determine where you are going with trading. It can be extremely difficult to make a decision sometimes, and maybe the most helpful action will be to just scrap all offers (yes, even the ones you think like) to clear it all up.
Going from UC to RW/N
Personally, I have always stayed away from converted RN/W pets unless another UC owner was truly interested in a particular one, and their desired custom was within my reach. When a purge is going on, it seems like lots of owners are waiting for the best names to be released, so it is recommended to investigate preferences before accepting a RN/W trade for your UC. Now that unlimited and double-unlimited customs no longer have much leverage with krawks and draiks, it should be easier to find a retrade for a RN/W pet with someone who really wants him/her. However, don't always expect, as some traders do, a basic super-common RW/N pet to fetch UC PRDKs without a custom. If it happens that you find a RN/W you think would be a good trade but don't have an immediate retrade, do your best to add a FFQ/UL/high custom to broaden your new pet's appeal.
Trading Around vs Trading Up
So the last thing I will discuss here is about trading up or just for a change. Most of us are looking to trade up, but there are scenarios when looking for a change is more beneficial instead of holding on your pet until they get a stale reputation around the PC while you're biding time for a suitable trade-up. For example, I owned _xxxxxx_## the UC Grey Poogle back when I first started trading and had a hard time finding firm offers due to their slight unpopularity. Luckily, I had offered on _xxxxxx_xxxxxx_xxxxx_ the UC Faerie Yurble earlier in the month, and her owner actually accepted on the last day since neither of us had gotten firm offers by that point. It was a decision to trade just for change, and it worked well to my benefit as I next traded for a VWN UC Grey. By the impression I get from most traders nowadays, they wouldn't even dream of offering, if given the same opportunity, due to similar/worse name formats. The points to take away here are (1) don't let your pet become known for being HTT and (2) don't immediately eliminate potential trades by not putting your pet on the table for others that really aren't that different.
The Ever Quest
Four Years Of Trading
I started trading pets back in the summer of 2008 and quit around mid spring of 2012. In the beginning, I began with two labbed pets: a VWN Semi-BD UC Grey Shoyru and a V/WN Semi-BD UC Mara Gelert. The first I ignorantly traded for a D/BN UC Coco after transitioning from the AC to the PC. The second was accidently pounded shortly after creating my side. The UC Coco went on to a D/BN UC Grey Poogle, DN UC Faerie Yurble, and back to a VWN Semi-BD UC Grey Shoyru by the next summer. Almost all of the pets in-between the shoyrus were trained up to the range of 20-25 even stats and considered "Semi-BD".
Almost immediately afterward, I traded the second shoy for a DN UC Faerie Pteri, which led to a 3-way with a BN ~750HSD "Super-BD" Baby/Basic Kacheek for a VWN Tyrannian Krawk. The krawk's owner facilitated the trade since she figured the SBD pet was a major up-trade, but it turned out to be extremely HTT due to the name and was never retraded. At that time, krawks were still high-end offers for upper-tier UCs, and they were just ever so slightly beginning to decline from the level of UC Plush/Royals. The previous year they were suitable offers for any UC PRDK owner who wanted VWN high-painted Draik or Krawk, yet their slight decline did not effect the upcoming 3-way I had in store.
It so happened that the owner of the best-named UC Faerie Pteri UFT at the time wanted a V/WN UC Faerie Lenny, and an uncapped name was fine. It seemed irrelevant until someone told me about the owner of a particular uncapped WN UC Faerie Lenny who wanted a V/WN Desert Krawk, which was an over-offer. With a 6L Krawk and enough in my bank for a Desert PB, the 3-way went though much to my amazement and happiness for the VWN UC Faerie Pteri. The two of my three dream pets (UC Faerie Lenny/Pteri) had been accomplished back-to-back within another year, and I even got to hold on the lovely lenny until the first of the next month.
Months went by with my beautiful pteri who was supposed to stay with me, but I was tempted away by a pet that was a retracted offered for the UC Grey Poogle I previously owned. The VWN/RN/RW ~750HSD Priate Hissi also had a firm Unlimited Custom offer waiting in the wings, but the current owner wanted my pteri, so we agreed to trade. Due to the patience of the trader offering the custom and extreme pure luck of finding a V/WN UC Grey Ixi owner who wanted a custom Mara Draik (under offer), a much riskier but successful 3-way came about. Thus, by the start of the fall semester in 2010, I was getting used to "Phann" and loved all the compliments she received regularly, although she wasn't a keeper because I still wanted my ultimate dream pet.
Now that I was above the UC Faeries, I set my ideal on at least one of three UC RGs I loved: Lupe, Kyrii, Aisha (respectively). Roughly five months went by as my cutie Ixi turned out to be HTT under all the better-named ones UFT, but she eventually found a BN UC MSP offer, followed by 3-way with a VBN UC Plush Shoy for a DN UC Ty Krawk to get a D/BN UC RG Aisha for keeps. Check one of three so far, but I decided I wanted a better named one, so a few months went by with my first UC RG as I had her casually UFT. I eventually took a chance by accepting a DN UC RG Koug with a much more fitting name, but "Queenie" turned out to be extremely HTT due to low popularity among other UC Plush/Royals. Miraculously, she was offered an English-RW UC Grey Ixi(a common literature definition), which I grabbed immediately and turned into the first host of the UCTTG. Sometime afterward, my second ixi was offered a DN UC Plush Kau, later dubbed "Pose," who was eventally retraded for a DN UC Plush Koug, nicknamed "Bater," right before 2011.
Bater remained with me as the host of the UCTTG throughout 2011 and the beginning of 2012, which brought about a series of quick trades, both good and bad. Before the summer, he was traded for an uncapped WN UC Ty Krawk, which was in turn abruptly retraded for a VWN/5L UC Robot Ixi out of pure fascination and curiosity. Less than a month later, I received three wonderful offers for my ixi: (1) VWN SBD UC MSP "Meg", (2) DN UC RG Lupe "Luna" (one whose name I love), and (3) VWN/6L BD UC RG Lupe. Meg's owner graciously agreed to wait until I heard back from Luna's owner, but I heard first from the second lupess' owner, whose dream pet was my ixi. Once the trade was planned out, Meg and Luna were traded for each other upon my suggestion. Tah dah! My ultimate dream pet was achieved, and each of us was very happy with our trades...!
...Or so I thought for a couple weeks until I was informed about the shady history of my lupe. After being harassed and even accused of stealing her, her original owner hounded TNT upon their objection and dismissal until they sent the lupess back. Afterward, they again were pestered to return my ixi, which they did promptly. After the trade reversal, I was unable to retrade for either Meg or Luna and unwilling to search for other offers, so I settled on trading down for Sparky, who is now the permanent UCTTG host and wouldn't be happier anywhere else.
- Royal Custom → VWN UC Grey Lupe → DN (long name) UC Faerie Lenny → DN Semi-BD Mara Draik → xxxARWEN the UC Faerie Lenny (dream)
- zapped VWN Faerie Eyrie → Finigans the Semi-RN Mara Ixi (love at first-sight)
- Royal Custom → Muramaki the Japanese-RN Faerie Xweetok
(first-sight love, before the Faerie Ruins Plot)
- 800k custom (Mutant Cy) → VWN Mara Shoy → V/WN/Semi-RW Mara Ixi → Cycelli the Choco Usul (dream & love at first sight)
- zapped VWN Mara Bori → VWN/Semi-RW RB Cy → VVVBN UC Dari Peo → Valencir the Robot Cy (dream)
- VWN Hissi + Desert custom → Anoressia the Maractite Usul
An interesting fact is I spent a whopping 8.5 mil on all my trades, including customs and extra-curricular training, whenever I could afford one. It's amazing how much it adds up, whether it's 5k, 25k, or 1.75mil at a time.
Launched 1.20.13 by Reny